Shimming Scales to the Extreme

I have a hard time dealing with a blade that closes off center..especially WAY off center. What makes it even more difficult is when the razor in question has a set of scales that you REALLY like. It was easy enough to replace the OEM scales with a nice set from Hart Steel, but....it wasn't the same.

So, a quick trip to the local hardware store and .13 cents later, here is the result-
Yes, the pivot is "cobby" to say the least and I will gladly listen to any advice which may reslut in a "cleaner" end result. But for now, this isn't too bad I suppose. Oh..this is a fairly pricey razor BTW....I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't.

Attachment 176868Attachment 176869Attachment 176870

Cannot tell from the pic,but something is not right with the scales,shimming like that should not be an option.

Didn't we just see this problem from somebody else with a Hart ????

I guess the fix depends on whether it is the Razor or the Scales that are "Off"

Easy enough to figure it out, take the razor out and put it on a flat surface press on the pivot hole with a finger and note the difference that the spine sits from the surface, flip the razor over and compare side to side... If the razor is off the distance will be off, if the razor is straight then the scales need tweaking...

You can remove some material at the pivot area, either on the inside of the scales or on the razor.

Yeah, this is the same razor as discussed earlier. I called Hart. They sent a set of replacement scales gratis. That was decent of them. Nice set made of Bocote (I think). I bolted them on and they were a perfect fit (which gives credibility to idea that the razor blade itself is fine). I just really missed those Micarta scales. They were a major reason I bought the thing in the first place. So, this gets the job done with minimal stress and anxiety. They'll be fine.

I have had to remove some material from the scales quite a few times with some vintage razors. I like to use my dremel with a bit alittle wider than the washer and tilt it one way or the other so the washer will sit alittle deeper on one side than the other and then do the opposite on the other scale. That way the you can't really see the material removed and it is a circle about the size of the washer. Sometimes it is just that the scales were pinned alittle off where the scales shift and force the razor to shift one way or the other. Sometimes the holes aren't drilled even so the pin is at an angle. There are so many little things that can throw a razor off. It amazes me how precise the razor and the scales need to be for everything to fit just right. Seems like it would be simple to just throw two scales together and make it work, but its not. This is one reason I find it fun to make scales.

Reality is,a blade with perfect geomitry (which I would assume a hart would have) and a properly made set of scales,should not have these issues
Thats why I hate those nuts and bolts systems,you have no capibilitys for adjusments other than tension.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix51

Yeah, this is the same razor as discussed earlier. I called Hart. They sent a set of replacement scales gratis. That was decent of them. Nice set made of Bocote (I think). I bolted them on and they were a perfect fit (which gives credibility to idea that the razor blade itself is fine). I just really missed those Micarta scales. They were a major reason I bought the thing in the first place. So, this gets the job done with minimal stress and anxiety. They'll be fine.

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OK, let me get this Straight; Glen (GSSIXGUN) who is a Professional Razor Restorer and Honer who has made scores of custom scales, saved hundreds if not thousands of blades from the trash heap (including my great grandfathers W&B), and is a Senior Mod here at SRP takes the time to share his knowledge of how to check to see what the problem is and you simply 'Blow Him Off' by saying (which gives credibility to idea that the razor blade itself is fine) without even trying his suggestion??????

I guess Forest Gump's mother was right! :gaah::shrug:

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

OK, let me get this Straight; Glen (GSSIXGUN) who is a Professional Razor Restorer and Honer who has made scores of custom scales, saved hundreds if not thousands of blades from the trash heap (including my great grandfathers W&B), and is a Senior Mod here at SRP takes the time to share his knowledge of how to check to see what the problem is and you simply 'Blow Him Off' by saying (which gives credibility to idea that the razor blade itself is fine) without even trying his suggestion??????

I guess Forest Gump's mother was right! :gaah::shrug:

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Did not see anyone get blown off.this post is not right:(

My apologies if my post was mis-worded or taken wrong. Glen had offered a sound and proven way to test to see if the blade was the problem or the scales.

I saw no post of trying his idea.

Again, my apologies if I have misspoken or offended anyone including the OP. :bow:

I too am confused.

Is the OP saying the maker sent him a new set of scales and he put them on and the razor closed perfectly… but the OP want the original scales, not the New ones that fit?

So the original scales are defective?

Confused

The OP may not have done what Glen said but then again he doesn't have too. He can do whatever he wants including checking his way which worked just as well. He put on the new scales which hart sent. They worked fine from the OP's post. So therefore that shows that the original micarta scales are to blame not the razor.

OP-

So you talked to Hart, and they sent you nice new scales. But they sent you different material scales then the ones you paid for. That is the weird thing. You wanted and paid for micarta scales you should have gotten new micarta scales in replacement. My advice for your best fix is call hart and ask if you can get replacement micarta scales and send back the ebony or whatever.

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Originally Posted by cosperryan

The OP may not have done what Glen said but then again he doesn't have too. He can do whatever he wants including checking his way which worked just as well. He put on the new scales which hart sent. They worked fine from the OP's post. So therefore that shows that the original micarta scales are to blame not the razor.

OP-

So you talked to Hart, and they sent you nice new scales. But they sent you different material scales then the ones you paid for. That is the weird thing. You wanted and paid for micarta scales you should have gotten new micarta scales in replacement. My advice for your best fix is call hart and ask if you can get replacement micarta scales and send back the ebony or whatever.

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Thank you. YES..That is exactly the issue at hand. I asked for a replacement set of scales just like the one that are obviously not right. They sent a set of Bocote scales. They're quite nice, but not the custom Micarta scales i paid for. Ok. The Blade fits perfectly into three different types of scales made by Hart. It doesn't fit in the one set of Micarta scales, those being the point of contention. I'm good here. I can make the "defective" scales work via extreme shimming. I guess they cannot or will not send me a set "exactly" like the ones that aren't right. OK..They did what they thought was correct. I'm good here. Maybe I'll learn to like Bocote.

Either the pivot hole is wonky, or the inside of the Micarta scale panels are wonky, both can be fixed so that the shim is not needed...

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Didn't we just see this problem from somebody else with a Hart ????

I guess the fix depends on whether it is the Razor or the Scales that are "Off"

Easy enough to figure it out, take the razor out and put it on a flat surface press on the pivot hole with a finger and note the difference that the spine sits from the surface, flip the razor over and compare side to side... If the razor is off the distance will be off, if the razor is straight then the scales need tweaking...

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Even if the razor is not 100% straight, this is not a big issue (as long as you cannot see it of course) when you make a pair of scales dedicated for that blade because you can easily adjust the scales. But I suspect that HART just have a bucket of blades and a bucket of scales and just put them on in a production line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phoenix51

Thank you. YES..That is exactly the issue at hand. I asked for a replacement set of scales just like the one that are obviously not right. They sent a set of Bocote scales. They're quite nice, but not the custom Micarta scales i paid for. Ok. The Blade fits perfectly into three different types of scales made by Hart. It doesn't fit in the one set of Micarta scales, those being the point of contention. I'm good here. I can make the "defective" scales work via extreme shimming. I guess they cannot or will not send me a set "exactly" like the ones that aren't right. OK..They did what they thought was correct. I'm good here. Maybe I'll learn to like Bocote.

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I would hazard a guess that they don't actually make them individually. Either they make a fixed size run themselves, or perhaps they buy them. If they don't make them individually, it just may be that they were out of those scales.

I have had to tweak a lot of scales, especially on older razors. I have had to disassemble some of them to get the scales right but on some that have collapsed together, I would put the scaled portion of a razor in boiling water for a few seconds with welding gloves on my hands & I have used a wedge I made out of a piece of bone to spread the scales apart many times to get them to the shape they were originally in. Most of the time, the are put back to the original shape they were in when new. The first set of scales on Phoenix51's razor he got from Hart had to be drilled wrong in the pivot area in order for them to be off, especially when the next set worked out perfectly. Another possibility is if the opposite end where the wedge goes were drilled incorrectly. That too will make the scales be off. I have made scales before that I accidentally drilled the pivot holes off & had the blade be off which was my fault when the scales shifted. I did not have both scales secure together enough to drill the pivot holes correctly. I also noticed that if the blade was pivoted all the way around where the tail passed between the scales, one side was closer to one scale than the other. I accepted my faulty work & never drilled them like that again. That was when I first started making scales. Now when making scales, they are usually secured together with double sided carpet tape & they don't come apart until the scales have been drilled & scales forming completed. Once done, I usually separate them, sand them down & polish them. Of course I will have to use some Goo Gone or some rubbing alcohol to get the sticky off the insides. I usually work with horn or bone but I do have some G-10 I haven't used yet. I also haven't tried Micarta yet. All that aside, I'm willing to bet his first set of Hart scales he used were not drilled correctly for the pivot pin fitment.

Hart and Bruce Gregory decided they wanted to see this razor up close and personal so it is scheduled to be delivered (on my nickel, hmmm) to the good folks at Classic Shaving who in turn will send it up to Mr. Gregory in Michigan for inspection and repair/replacement. I have no doubt things will turn out fine.